Sanjay Gubbi - Session 05, 2022-07-11

(00:00:28) Human-wildlife conflict and relocation of people

Sanjay Gubbi reflects on his experiences with wildlife conflict, particularly a significant incident at a Bangalore school. [Archivist's note: this incident took place in February 2016 when Gubbi was involved in an attempt to sedate and capture a leopard that had entered a school’s premises in Bangalore. Unfortunately, the leopard attacked him, severely injuring him.] He emphasises the lasting damage conflict inflicts on individuals and families, advocating for stronger policies and a re-evaluation of conflict management approaches. He urges for a deeper understanding of coexistence and highlights the need for improved governmental and conservation community responses to conflict.

Gubbi discusses the misconception surrounding relocation of people as a solution to human-wildlife conflict and how his initial perspective regarding this changed over time. He highlights data showing that conflict often occurs outside protected areas, even after relocation efforts. Changes in conflict distribution over time challenge conventional wisdom. He criticises the shallow understanding of conflict and calls for nuanced solutions that prioritise both wildlife and human well-being.

(00:12:39) Human-wildlife coexistence and beneficial approaches in conservation

Gubbi argues that while coexistence is possible in natural habitats with low human populations, beyond a certain threshold of human density, the impact on wildlife becomes severe. He cautions against overselling coexistence, citing examples like Mumbai and Bangalore, where wildlife primarily resides in protected areas, not urban centres.

Further, he stresses upon the critical role of natural habitats for wildlife survival, supported by extensive research demonstrating higher leopard occupancy in such areas. He warns of a tipping point where increasing human populations jeopardise this balance, leading to escalating conflicts detrimental to both wildlife and people. Criticising urban-centric conservation approaches, he advocates for a deeper integration into local communities, emphasising the need to understand and respect societal dynamics for effective conservation efforts.

Conservation, as per Gubbi, is not just a job, but rather a way of life requiring immersion and passion, akin to philosophy. According to him, while science plays a role, true conservation involves societal integration and problem-solving, not just quantitative analysis. Conservation is about society, not just science.

(00:23:50) Formal research and conservation

Gubbi critiques the narrow focus of ecological research, which often disregards societal aspects crucial for conservation. He highlights the disparity between research priorities and societal needs, citing the lack of studies addressing human-wildlife conflict and policy formulation. He challenges the prevalent ivory tower approach in ecology, urging researchers to engage with communities and policymakers. He talks about the need for interdisciplinary research that resonates with society and addresses real-world conservation challenges. He underscores the importance of communicating research findings effectively and integrating local knowledge to foster innovative solutions to conservation issues, particularly in conflict-prone areas.

(00:32:53) Science and conservation

Formal science, as traditionally practiced, has a limited role in conservation. It often prioritises peer validation over problem-solving for society. Gubbi argues for a shift towards problem-oriented science, addressing societal and ecological challenges. He compares this to cricket, where true skill is tested against diverse opponents, not just in familiar settings. Similarly, science must confront real-world challenges beyond academic circles to be truly impactful.

(00:38:37) Beneficial approaches in conservation

In reference to his work at Kuvempu University and Holématthi Nature Information Centre, Gubbi says that the language of conservation needs to shift towards the local dialects spoken by rural communities, fostering a deeper understanding of wildlife from their perspective. He talks about the importance of nurturing conservation leaders from rural backgrounds, challenging the elitist nature of the field. He envisions a future where passion for wildlife, not just academic credentials, drives conservation efforts, advocating for a more inclusive and holistic approach to conservation science.

(00:43:42) Wildlife and conservation career advice for others

Regarding career advice for a young person passionate about wildlife and conservation, Gubbi suggests starting with hands-on volunteering in rural areas to grasp diverse perspectives firsthand in order to understand conservation authentically. He advises against immediately pursuing academic courses, which may bias views, suggesting formal education later in one’s career. Passion, not just academic credentials, he says, is crucial for effective conservation work.

(00:48:12) Professionalisation of conservation

Gubbi speaks about the positive and negative aspects about the professionalisation of conservation. To ensure effective conservation, hiring should prioritise passion, community engagement, and adaptability, rather than solely academic credentials. Passion-driven individuals from diverse backgrounds can bring invaluable contributions to conservation efforts, he says.

(00:51:29) Working in “project mode”, challenges with funding and outcomes of popular writing

[Archivist’s note: 00:52:00-00:52:09: interviewer and interviewee lost connection]

Gubbi shares that conservation cannot be confined to short-term projects; it requires sustained, long-term engagement akin to a marriage. Constantly shifting focus undermines effectiveness. Rather than project-based approaches, lasting commitment to landscapes and communities is essential for meaningful conservation impact.

Gubbi talks about funding challenges arising due to the prevalent project-based conservation model and lack of understanding among grant agencies about the importance of long-term engagement and local roots. Writing popular articles and books has helped bridge funding gaps, but Indian philanthropy, especially corporate social responsibility (CSR), still lacks maturity in understanding nuanced conservation needs. Until this changes, reliance on foreign funding may persist, leading to unwarranted suspicions.

Popular writing, like Gubbi’s book, Second Nature, has proven instrumental in securing funding for operational conservation expenditures. He says it garners social support, even from rural areas, where individuals recognise and appreciate the conservation efforts, fostering collaborations and inquiries about conservation initiatives.

(00:59:48) Conservation successes Gubbi is proud of, the role of ecological research in them, and effective marketing of conservation ideas

Gubbi reflects on securing over a million acres of land for wildlife conservation in Karnataka, enabling debates on wildlife survival and human coexistence. He expresses immense pride and satisfaction in his conservation career, noting the positive impact on both wildlife and people, despite the challenges faced.

In his conservation achievements, Gubbi says ecological research played a minimal role. Field understanding, bureaucratic navigation, and social engagement were pivotal. Although undervalued in formal science circles, Gubbi believes this knowledge is crucial and could be appreciated by society at large.

Gubbi emphasises the importance of highlighting lesser-known landscapes like Kappatagudda in Gadag district for conservation. By framing the issue around water security rather than wildlife, the area was successfully protected from gold mining, benefiting both wildlife and people.

Effective marketing and selling conservation ideas are crucial for real-world impact.

[1:03:45 - 1:04:11 – Restricted access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(01:08:19) Beneficial approaches in conservation

Gubbi speaks about resilience in conservation efforts, urging against being deterred by short-term setbacks. Flexibility and compromise with stakeholders are crucial, even if full success is not achieved. It is about making incremental progress over a career, contributing what one can for conservation’s larger picture, despite personal discomfort.

Gubbi illustrates how passion and perseverance can achieve conservation goals, citing examples like the night closure of highways in tiger reserves. He underlines the importance of approaching the right stakeholders, even politicians, to enact change. Conservation efforts, though challenging, benefit both wildlife and people, often in ways that are not immediately apparent but are significant in the long run. Common sense and societal understanding, he says, are as crucial as scientific rigour in this pursuit.

[Archivist’s note: the interviewee refers to the “Scheduled Tribes and Other Traditional Forest Dwellers (Recognition of Forest Rights) Act, 2006” as the “FRA” or Forest Rights Act]

(01:17:29) Personal vision for the future, importance of lunacy and cherished wildlife moments

Gubbi sees conservation through a landscape lens, valuing habitats over individual species. He envisions broader conservation work across Karnataka, including diverse natural habitats like grasslands and scrub forests. While open to sharing knowledge globally, he stresses the importance of local understanding and connection, suggesting his expertise lies within Karnataka’s unique ecosystems.

He highlights the importance of lunacy alongside passion in conservation work, acknowledging that unconventional approaches may initially seem strange but can lead to groundbreaking results. He emphasises the value of being recognised beyond one’s own community, finding fulfilment in the daily challenges and continuous learning of the conservation journey.

Gubbi reflects on the lasting impact of a close encounter with a leopard, acknowledging its lunacy but cherishing it as a memorable part of his life. He finds joy in wildlife encounters and appreciates moments in nature, particularly the beauty of Shola grasslands during the monsoon.