Jayshree Vencatesan - Session 01, 2022-02-19

(0:00) Early Life and Education Jayshree Vencatesan spent much of her childhood in Andhra Pradesh in the cities of Guntur and Rajahmundry. Her father worked for Hindustan Lever. Her mother, before getting married to Vencatesan’s father, was a teacher and after that, a home-maker. She has two younger brothers. She describes her household as “typical” and “middle-class.” Vencatesan moved around schools a lot because of the kind of transferable job her father had. She went to a Catholic school after which she went to a government school. She completed her schooling at St. Joseph’s in Guntur. She later went to college in Tirupathi where she said her interest in Biology began to grow. She later moved to Chennai for her doctoral studies. On being asked to elaborate on her early schooling, Vencatesan said that she completed her kindergarten years from the Sacred Heart Primary School. She describes the school as very “fun,” with a lot of opportunities for students to play around. She used to walk down to the school every day with her brothers and friends. This, she states, was a very memorable phase in her life. She later transferred to another school which was slightly farther from her house. Vencatesan, her brothers and friends used to commute to the school in a hand-drawn rickshaw. To save money, they used to walk back. With the 40 paise that they managed to save, Vencatesan remembers buying candy and peanuts. Her walk back from school brought her near the river Godavari which flowed through Rajahmundry, where she went to school. She remembers how the river used to flood sometimes and volunteers had to use ropes to help people cross the river. Vencatesan switched schools again to pursue what she calls “serious education.” She didn’t want to name the school but she did not enjoy her studies there. She said that she was declared a “useless person,” and this “branding” had a negative impact on her growing up so much so that in grades 8 and 9 she felt that her academic progress suffered although during the rest of her educational career she remained a topper, including placing fourth in the state during her grade 10th exams. [Archivist’s note: Error in audio where the interviewer by mistake states that the interview is being done via Cleanfeed. The interview with Dr. Jayshree Vencatesan was recorded using Skype.]

(5:36) Interest in Biology Vencatesan talks about her interest in fieldwork, natural systems and the relationship between humans and nature. She said she had been interested in these topics from a very young age having lived near the Godavari channel for several years during her childhood. She talks of how the Godavari channel used to be notorious for flooding. People could sense these floods coming and she, along with her brothers used to watch the water levels rise as the channel flooded. She remembers being very fascinated by how entire houses used to be washed away because of these floods. Vencatesan wondered how people managed to live in such conditions. Vencatesan then goes on to talk about her fondness for art and paintings. She did receive some training during her early years in water colours. She even won both, national and regional-level prizes for her art. She remembers one particular painting very fondly which she drew when she was nine years old. The painting depicted a queue of people standing in front of ration shop.

(9:25) Family and Friends Vencatesan reverted to talking about her family and friends growing up. Her family is native to Andhra Pradesh (from Tirupati) although her mother was from Tamil Nadu. She states that she spent some of the happiest days of her life with her two brothers. One of her brothers is a chartered account, the other is in marketing. Growing up, she felt she and her brothers were like a gang in the neighbourhood. They also had a very large friends group growing up and she remains very good friends with them even today. Regarding her birthdate, Vencatesan said that she was born in 1966, although in official records her birthdate appears as 1965 because her mother had to “reschedule,” her birthyear so that she was able to enrol in schools on time. Vencatesan said that while she chose to focus on ecology, her friends went into “regular,” careers. On being asked to clarify what she means by “regular,” careers, Vencatesan explained that in South India the acceptable career paths for most people would include medicine, engineering and chartered accountancy. Relative to that, her choice to work in biodiversity conservation was considered unconventional. She then states that her family was always known for their fondness of wildlife and animals. Her grandfather worked in the Forest Department, although Vencatesan has no memories of him.

(13:58) Writing the UGC and JRF Exams Vencatesan said that her goal in life was to “do something worthwhile.” She had never dreamt that she would be working in ecology or that she would have founded an NGO. She completed her Master’s, in which she was awarded a gold medal for securing the highest marks, and then began her M.Phil studies, only to realize that her research was not going anywhere. At the time, she was working in the field of community nutrition. She never completed her M.Phil. She then talks about wanting to sit for the Junior Research Fellowship (JRF) exams, but her university then, the Sri Venkateswara University, did not offer mentorship or support to students who wished to sit for such exams. When she finally found a coaching class, she had to borrow Rs. 500 for her father. She recalls a funny incident where she ultimately ended up using this money to settle her canteen bills and was not able to enrol in the coaching class. Despite that, she went on to become the only student to clear the fellowship exam. The day she wrote the exam was also the day she got engaged. She saw her engagement as “one more exam.”

(17:50) Research on Community Nutrition Her research on community nutrition as a graduate student was on the effects of zinc and iron supplements in the diets of pregnant and lactating women.

(18:24) Meeting M.S. Swaminathan and Mrs. Meena Swaminathan In 1990, Vencatesan moved to Chennai after getting married. She also became pregnant with her daughter, because of which she found it difficult to get a job. Even in Chennai, her associates asked her to stay at home and take care of her child. Vencatesan recalls this as an especially low point for her in her life. She stayed at home and did paintings. One of her paintings was used by a women’s activist group. Mrs. Meena Swaminathan, wife of M.S. Swaminathan saw her painting and requested a meeting with Vencatesan to commission more. Vencatesan describes Meena Swaminathan as very kind. She also met M.S. Swaminathan during this visit. She recalls being shocked to see him in person since she had grown up hearing stories about him. M.S. Swaminathan offered Vencatesan a job at the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation. Vencatesan then asked her father for help so that she could take up the job offer and have someone at home to take care of her still infant child. Her father (and mother) promised to relocate from Tirupati to Chennai on the condition that Vencatesan complete her doctoral studies.

(22:45) Hunger Project Fellowship Prior to beginning her doctoral work, Vencatesan received the Hunger Project Fellowship. She has had a strong interest in gender studies. Her work with this fellowship looked at female dependency. She appreciated the help and support that she got from local communities she worked with. She looked at the links between food security and female dependency across a wide range of landscapes including coastal and hilly terrains. She worked in Kolli Hills in the Eastern Ghats which at that time was a relatively understudied area. She met R.J. Ranjit Daniels, from the Indian Institute of Science, during this project. Daniels was the principal scientist at the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation at this time. She felt that Ranjit Daniels had the ability to mentor students and therefore wanted to work under him. Working with Ranjit Daniels cemented her interest in ecology.

(25: 30) M.S. Swaminathan and Meena Swaminathan Jayshree Vencatesan greatly admires M.S. Swaminathan. She states that he instilled confidence in her. She recalls M.S. Swaminathan telling her that she was “very good.” M.S. Swaminathan also gave her opportunities to participate in all of the functions held at the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation including putting her in charge of an event which was attended by the then Chief-Minister of Tamil Nadu, J. Jayalalithaa. Vencatesan recalls Meena Swaminathan giving her a lot of freedom to do her research and admires her as a great mentor, as well.

(28:18) PhD Research Jayshree Vencatesan’s doctoral work was centred around the links between biodiversity and gender in the Kolli Hills. Dr. Ranjit Daniels also had a team working in Kolli Hills researching birds, small mammals and amphibians. Vencatesan recalls travelling and researching with Dr. Daniels’ team. One year into her fieldwork, Vencatesan discovered a burnt church in her field site. Later research carried out by Jayshree Vencatesan revealed that the church was owned by a J.C. Brandt. J.C. Brandt’s son, Paul Brandt had started the leprosy centre at the Christian Medical College in Vellore, where Vencatesan had also interned for a while during her Master’s. Vencatesan then contacted Dr. Paul Brandt who was able to give Vencatesan his father, J.C. Brandt’s field notes and photographs about Kohli Hills. Paul Brandt’s father had detailed records of the fauna of Kolli Hills. Inspired by these notes, Vencatesan shifted the focus of her doctoral work to look at the ecological history of the Kolli Hills. Vencatesan believes that this was the “best part,” of her thesis. Vencatesan also wanted to find more about the Kolli Hills from an Indian perspective. Talking to an English professor at the International Institute of Tamil Studies, Vencatesan discovered that Kolli Hills had been directly referenced in Sangam literature that dealt with Tamil historiography. This knowledge helped her revisit her field and identify specific sites that were referenced in this literature. Vencatesan talks about identifying a female custodian deity, who had been referenced across Tamil literature. She talks about writing a paper about this deity with Professor Madhav Gadgil. She also chanced upon a Vaishnavite scholar who helped her discover that the Kolli Hills had been an integral part of an ancient Indian dynasty. The Vaishnavites’ sacred texts also have clear references to Kolli Hills. Furthermore, Vencatesan also used the British Board of Revenue Records in her research. She also had a chance encounter with one of India’s most famous wildlife photographers, while doing fieldwork. Vencatesan talks about visiting the photographer’s home in Salem. The photographer’s father used to be a zamindar and had old records that they then gave Vencatesan to use in her research. Vencatesan said that all these experiences ensured that her thesis was unique. She said she didn’t plan on her thesis being so multi-disciplinary. When she was doing her PhD research, she felt she was a typical, South Indian looking women. She had long plaited hair and wore a saree. She also carried her child along in the field. People in the village used to be very amused by her because of this. Later, her father also helped out with taking care of her daughter while Vencatesan did fieldwork. Vencatesan said she has had many mentors to help her along her way.

(42:52) Positionality as Female Researcher On being asked to expand on her experience doing fieldwork as a female researcher, Vencatesan said that she felt most uncomfortable in urban settings, not rural ones. She said she felt very much at home with marginalized and low-income groups because that is the landscape she grew up in. She never had trouble connecting with such communities, either. Initially, she felt that her fellow researchers and some government officials were prejudiced against her, but now she has gained a lot of their respect. She also talked about meeting V. Krishnamurthy, a renowned vet, known for his work with elephants and his wife. Vencatesan remembers Krishnamurthy’s wife being very surprised that Vencatesan was dressed in a sari and not the usual jeans or trousers that are normally associated with researchers or ecologists. Vencatesan said that by wearing traditional Indian garb during her fieldwork she was able to connect with community members more.

(47: 10) About Her Father When asked who her role model was, Vencatesan said it was her father. Her father led a simple life. She could not appreciate the simplicity of this life before, but now she realized her father never wasted his words. Being simple meant strength of character and maturity.

(48:30) Internship With Christian Medical College On being asked to elaborate on her internship with the Christian Medical College, Vencatesan said that it was her supervisor who gave her that opportunity. The internship was meant to help her enhance her fieldwork skills. Tasks included doing community and ethnographic services and recording observations.

(49:26) Paintings Vencatesan was very fascinated with painting and embroidery. If she needed to understand a concept better, she would invariably draw it. Recently, she has also picked up Adobe photoshop.

(51:12) Working With the Catholic Church of India Vencatesan talks about working with the Catholic Bishops Conference of India. She worked with several dioceses across the country. Her job was to help members of the Catholic Church integrate good conservation practises into their work. Vencatesan pointed out that the Catholic Church has always mobilized funds for natural resource management. Her task was to evaluate and guide them. She also talks of her work in Ajmer that included afforestation projects. She said even if she is unable to contribute to a project, she is always willing to learn. [00:52:41 - 00:54:27 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(55:50) Care Earth Trust Jayshree Vencatesan founded the Care Earth Trust after completing her PhD, along with Dr. Ranjit Daniels. She works in ecology conservation and the conservation of marshlands. Many people tried to deter her from pursuing a career in this field, encouraging her instead to work in the field of human-animal conflict. She still works with the initial wetland conservation project she began in 2001. She also did a project to protect a marshland in Chennai. That project, she said, can be a good global example of how science-based advocacy can lead to action.

(57:23) Restoration Process Vencatesan and Daniels founded Care Earth Trust in 2000. After that, she collaborated on projects that Dr. Daniels was given. She did administration work. When asked to explain the process of wetland restoration, Vencatesan said that the first step was to define a marshland’s boundary. Drawing from her own experience, Vencatesan said that she first visited the village admin officer and found that most wetlands had been designated as wastelands by the locals. The second step in the restoration process was looking at colonial records. Finally, the third step was to demarcate the boundary of a wetland. She also talked about her work with the Tamil Nadu Forest Department. She also recalled the time her work on conservation of the Chennai wetlands was presented to the then Chief-Minister of Tamil Nadu, J. Jayalalithaa. In light of the 2005 Chennai floods, Jayalalithaa declared the marshland Vencatesan was working with a reserve forest. Vencatesan also draws up management plans as part of her work in wetland restoration. On being asked to explain significance of wetlands, Vencatesan said that wetlands provide vital ecosystem services. Wetlands also have a very close relationship with human civilizations. [01:00:44 - 1:01:00 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(1:04:57) Wetland Management and Women Communities Vencatesan recalls an interesting anecdote. She was working on a project for the Tamil Nadu Forest Department where she noticed that the wetlands were dry. She talks about engaging with the local women community of that area who knew a lot about the ecosystem. The women were able to point out the significance of the river Kaveri in managing the wetland ecosystem there. The significance of Kaveri to this particular wetland was a point even Vencatesan was not aware of. Vencatesan was surprised that these women who had never seen a map or satellite imagery in their lives could sketch out their ecosystem so well.

(1:12:25) Indigenous Knowledge On asked whether indigenous knowledge also has its own vocabulary to talk about biodiversity and conservation, Vencatesan said that we must not assume that only English and science have these concepts. The Tamil language has a detailed set of idioms that has been used for centuries to talk about wetlands. Local communities and various indigenous knowledge systems can talk about natural systems in a lot of depth. Unfortunately, this traditional ecological knowledge is not being made part of the larger conversation around biodiversity conservation at the national level. Traditional knowledge needs to be used in drafts and policies but at the legal level, Vencatesan believes we have been very dismissive of traditional knowledge. She also said that researchers need to go into the field with humility and try and work with the local communities there to see how they understand their natural surroundings. This will help researchers draft evidence-based policies. When asked whether she still attends international research conferences, Vencatesan said she has stopped going to those and works primarily in Tamil Nadu. Currently, Vencatesan is working on restoration projects in Chennai and in the Western Ghats. These projects combine science with traditional knowledge.

(1:22:25) Care Earth Trust’s Work Vencatesan describes some of the projects Care Earth Trust has been involved in. They do community-based work, i.e. work that requires local engagement. Vencatesan said they primarily take up projects that lead to policies, and not basic research. Care Earth Trust’s mandate is to do applied research. They have drafted various management plans for the Tamil Nadu government. They have also helped guide the construction of buildings- an IIT campus and other institutional infrastructures-keeping in mind the ecology of the region. As Managing Trustee, Vencatesan defines scientific agenda, mobilizes funds and mentors colleagues at the Care Earth Trust.

(1:28:22) Tamil Nadu Women’s Developmental Corporation Vencatesan talks about the Tamil Nadu state’s initiative to improve and promote sustainable livelihood among women. Her job as part of the Tamil Nadu Women’s Developmental Corporation includes helping in training and capacity building. For women, biodiversity conservation needs to make economic sense and so her job is to try and help women understand how conservation can improve their livelihoods. Vencatesan said that when women are given the opportunity to make decisions, they do “smart thinking.” Unlike men, Vencatesan said that women look at “intangible,” and not economic benefits. Women look at what might benefit society the most. Vencatesan talks about one project she is currently undertaking that encourages women farmers in peri-urban areas to do organic farming.

(1:33:02) Parents Vencatesan describes her mother as a very “intelligent woman,” who excelled in all the goals she set for herself. Growing up, Vencatesan did challenge her leadership, though. Vencatesan recalls an incident, when in a fit of anger towards her mother, she went around school and spread false rumours about her parents getting a divorce. Her mother used to be a part time teacher and taught at the nearby slums. Her father she describes as very generous. He had no tolerance for people who spoke ill of other communities or religions. She said her family was very liberal.

(1:38:22) Safety in the Field When asked about whether she ever felt uncomfortable during her fieldwork, Vencatesan recalls times when she felt very unsafe. Once, five men jumped into her room. She had also had people make leud comments about her. She felt very sad that women have to experience such harassment. She has only had these experiences in very privileged, “high profile,” spaces. Vencatesan also said that the Care Earth Trust is very strict about their female colleagues’ safety.

(1:41:28) Ecofeminism When asked to elaborate on ecofeminism, Vencatesan said that women’s lives are invariably organized around nature. Ecofeminism in India has not been able to tap into the depth of knowledge that women have about nature. She talks about the Hunger Project, too. In that project, Vencatesan learnt that when women have access to natural resources, food security among them is much better.

(1:45:05) Personal Life Now Her daughter currently also works in Care Earth Trust. Vencatesan lives in Chennai but she says that her compound is surrounded by trees and looks almost like a rural area. Her husband is also very supportive. Care Earth Trust also works in animal welfare and rehabilitation. Vencatesan talks about her fondness for animals. Vencatesan talks about her achievements. She considers the response that she gets from community members that she works with a true measure of her success. She said she feels very proud of the recognition that she gets from them and government officials.

(1:52:30) Teaching Talks about teaching human ecology at colleges.

(1:54:43) Oral History Vencatesan said that oral histories are repositories of knowledge if you can guide it. She said it is difficult to construct a timeline with oral history. Oral history can be used to document protests about natural resources. [01:55:29 - 01:59:23 - Restricted Access. Contact archives@ncbs.res.in for details]

(2:02:20) Covid-19 Pandemic Vencatesan believes that the Covid-19 pandemic occurred because of human beings’ abuse of nature. She added that in the grand scheme of things, humans are a very insignificant species and need to be more humble.